Author Topic: Busted nut holder, how to remove panel? Need Help!  (Read 3235 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • Offline Tazmool

    • Crosstourer Pro  ‐    127
    • ***
    • Topic Author

    Offline Tazmool

    • Crosstourer Pro
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 127
    • Bike: VFR1200X
    Busted nut holder, how to remove panel? Need Help!
    on: Jan 24, 2017, 03.45 am
    Jan 24, 2017, 03.45 am
    Howdy,

    Ok, over the weekend I had a bit of time to tinker with my CT, install some givi luggage, huggers, fender extenders, rad guards.... and in the process I got myself into a bit of a problem situation...

    While removing a few bolts from the fairing on the right hand side of the bike, I noticed that one of the bolts in the plastic fairing felt like it was cross-threaded, it was continually resisting turning .  Having never taken this bike apart (its new to me, and relatively new overall with 543km on it) I'm quite confident that its still factory new. 

    I was hoping that the fairing bolt that was screwing out with quite a bit of resistance was:
    A:  Not cross threaded
    B:  If it is cross threaded, that it was not threaded directly into the frame (I did not know at this time how this fairing is held together)

    Long story short, its not cross threaded, the bolt eventually "loosened up", but it appears that its receiver, is a captive "nut" that is moulded into the black plastic side cover?   and it broke loose, turns freely, and the bolt will not come out......

    I'll include a photo of the problem fairing bolt, the yellow arrow points to the bolt that is now just spinning and won't come out.

    I don't know how the nut is held in place, or if there is any way to take the fairing off with out removing this bolt?
    (Having watched a video on the panel removal, I think this is a very important bolt.. and needs to be removable)

    Any ideas on how to remove this bolt?   hopefully with out breaking anything...?   :034:

    There is a little free play between the plastic panels that are held together by this bolt, so the fairing will most likely rattle now...
    And I will need to be able to remove these panels to do basic service etc...

    Help!   :148:

    Tazmool

    PS: The photo is from the day I got the bike home, I forgot to snap a photo of the bike when working on it....
    PPS: Yellow arrow points towards stuck bolt....
    Last Edit: Jan 24, 2017, 03.48 am by Tazmool

  • Offline Hartley   england

    • Crosstourer God  ‐    3074
    • *****
      #1

    Offline Hartley

    • Crosstourer God
    • *****
    • Posts: 3074
    • Country: england
    • Bike: Crosstourer
    • City / Town: Northampton
    Re: Busted nut holder, how to remove panel? Need Help!
    Reply #1 on: Jan 24, 2017, 06.23 am
    Jan 24, 2017, 06.23 am
    Not the first Tazmool, wont be the last. Sh1te design.

    Look here:

    https://www.crosstourer.com/index.php/topic,3216.msg36923.html#msg36923


  • Offline Tazmool

    • Crosstourer Pro  ‐    127
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • #2

    Offline Tazmool

    • Crosstourer Pro
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 127
    • Bike: VFR1200X
    Re: Busted nut holder, how to remove panel? Need Help!
    Reply #2 on: Jan 24, 2017, 10.06 am
    Jan 24, 2017, 10.06 am
    Aww bugger, I was hoping there was some secret simple solution....

    Thanks for the link, I'm hoping not to have to drill, but may have to do that (as a last resort)  I'll try holding down the bolt first.
    The bike is under warranty, and a dealer is close by, I'll talk to them, maybe I'll get the bolt for free, maybe a panel.... hmm.....

    And I agree, not a good design by Honda, captive nuts in plastic casings never works out long term.  I'm wondering why they got away from these C-Clip nuts that motorcycles used for decades... those are far more reliable.

    Tazmool

  • Offline Clanmurray

    • Crosstourer Member  ‐    59
    • **
      #3

    Offline Clanmurray

    • Crosstourer Member
    • **
    • Posts: 59
    • Bike: VFR1200X DCT H
    • City / Town: Perth
    Re: Busted nut holder, how to remove panel? Need Help!
    Reply #3 on: Jan 24, 2017, 01.10 pm
    Jan 24, 2017, 01.10 pm
    Hi Tazmool,

    I see your issue in your photo, if you remove the triangular shaped panel below this bolt, will that allow you to get behind the panel your trying to remove? then you may be able to get a hold of the spinning nut, thus allowing safe removal.

    Davy

  • Offline GADGET

    • Crosstourer Master  ‐    610
    • ****
      #4

    Offline GADGET

    • Crosstourer Master
    • ****
    • Posts: 610
    Re: Busted nut holder, how to remove panel? Need Help!
    Reply #4 on: Jan 24, 2017, 02.51 pm
    Jan 24, 2017, 02.51 pm
    Happened to me, It is possible to get in with a pair of long nosed liars to hold the captive nut. One panel is off, set it in place with epoxy resin.

  • Offline Tazmool

    • Crosstourer Pro  ‐    127
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • #5

    Offline Tazmool

    • Crosstourer Pro
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 127
    • Bike: VFR1200X
    Re: Busted nut holder, how to remove panel? Need Help!
    Reply #5 on: Jan 31, 2017, 06.51 pm
    Jan 31, 2017, 06.51 pm
    An update:

    After a few scouting sessions, trying to get at the captive nut, then trying to drill out the bolt (its hard to drill when the bolt is spinning and you have no way to hold it) I tried (more aggressively) to get at the captive nut and hold it in place, I finally got the offending nut/bolt off and got the panel removed.

    The plastic panel was damaged in the process, right in the area that was already damaged by the spinning captive nut.
    The root of the problem is not just the bad design, but the factory new captive nut and bolt have damaged threads, once I finally got a good hold of the nut, it was very difficult to remove the bolt, its no surprise that the captive nut broke loose in the plastic panel.

    Again I have no idea why Honda went away from decades of using metal c-style body nuts, which in this case would have come off even with the thread problems.

    Which brings me to my second observation, this is the second fastener on my bike with the exact same problem, somehow the fastener threads are damaged at the factory (or supplier) or during installation perhaps?  how are these being installed when they are so hard to remove?

    The other bad nut/bolt combo was on the battery which I removed for winter storage, the exact same problem as this fairing panel happened, the nut was jammed, then broke loose inside the battery terminal.  I got it removed eventually and replaced both fasteners on the battery (- and + terminal bolts)

    I sincerely hope this is the last of the bad fasteners on this bike, as in every case during removal, the fastener nut damages whatever is holding it in place.
    I have removed both side fairing panels and all fastener are ok with the exception of the two offenders.  I'm a bit worried that a more important fastener is jammed on somewhere else....
    This seems like a serious decline in Honda quality, I've had several honda bikes and all have been flawless, down to the last nut and bolt....

    I'll include a photo of the panel and faster.
    There you can see the damage to the panel, and the nut/bolt combo threaded together, which in the photo are screwed together as far as they will go using just fingers, any further would require tools and lots of torque (they should thread together completely using just fingers).....

    The hopeful good news is that I took the panel and fasteners to my local honda dealer and they said it should be a "no brainer" for honda to replace the entire panel and the fasteners.  They took photos of my vin, the parts etc....  so I'm hoping that this will be resolved quickly and I can re-assemble my bike soon. 

    Tazmool

  • Offline pistnbroke   england

    • Crosstourer Master  ‐    1572
    • ****
      #6

    Offline pistnbroke

    • Crosstourer Master
    • ****
    • Posts: 1572
    • Country: england
    • Bike: crosstourer
    • City / Town: Irby
    Re: Busted nut holder, how to remove panel? Need Help!
    Reply #6 on: Jan 31, 2017, 11.38 pm
    Jan 31, 2017, 11.38 pm
    just a question, I presume its cold in your area now, and i know we cant choose when to do some work on our bikes but, is it made more likely to damage the plastics and surrounding area of the fasteners because its so cold, or do you work in a warm heated  garage, just thinking that plastic does become more brittle in the colder weather.
    Congratulations on getting the offending crappy bolt and captive nut off finally. persistence.  :028:
    keep it shiny side up !!!

  • Offline Tazmool

    • Crosstourer Pro  ‐    127
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • #7

    Offline Tazmool

    • Crosstourer Pro
    • ***
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 127
    • Bike: VFR1200X
    Re: Busted nut holder, how to remove panel? Need Help!
    Reply #7 on: Feb 01, 2017, 12.04 am
    Feb 01, 2017, 12.04 am
    Its definitely cool, today was -6C, when I first started to take off the fairing it was +8C (we have had wild temperature swings here this winter)
    I was being careful not to apply too much pressure on the plastic panels when working on the bike, but the fastener issue is some sort of manufacturing defect, the other nuts and bolts all came off quite easily, I have both side panels off.

    The offending captive nut and bolt feel like they are almost cross threaded they were that hard to turn, no way a plastic panel could hold that kind of pressure with a captive nut.  A c-clip body nut could hold, but no way the setup that honda has in that particular spot.

    The panel that holds the captive nut became deformed by the nut spinning around inside, then I was trying to get at and hold the captive nut with the panel still installed on the bike, access was very difficult.  To get a set of pliers on the captive nut, I had to hold "through" the plastic surround (that's the only access I had)  you can see in the photo and imagine where the mangled plastic was is where the pliers jaws were trying to hold the nut, only when the pliers finally bit down onto the metal nut was I able to get the torque necessary to get the bolt out, it felt cross threaded all the way out.

    I'm not happy about damaging the inner panel by removing it this way, and I hope honda does good on replacing it.

    I have worked on my bikes in -20c and +38C weather.  I agree that cold makes plastic more brittle, but I'm trying to get all the tinkering done before spring  :038:
    This way during the summer the CT is ready to go, and no surprises like this crop up (no loss in riding time) I'm hoping just smiles and miles this riding season  :018:

    Tazmool

     



    arab-exile