Author Topic: Combinded Brake removal  (Read 10757 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

  • Offline Nerriga16

    • Crosstourer Member  ‐    23
    • **
    • Topic Author

    Offline Nerriga16

    • Crosstourer Member
    • **
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 23
    Combinded Brake removal
    on: Jan 12, 2017, 10.22 am
    Jan 12, 2017, 10.22 am
    Hi All,

    The Honda 1200x has combined brakes as everyone knows and I tried to live with it but in the end could not after three get offs in the dirt trying to slow the big girl down at speed in deep sand and mud. I ride it often on dirt so the following needed to be undertaken and the results for me are great.

    So I thought I would quickly post the information as improvement in the bike for me is fantastic, the front brakes are better more pulling up power and the rear you can now give the abs a workout .

    So if you don't know how the system works it is as follows,
    apply the rear brake and fluid is sent via the abs unit into a damper and then into the left front calliper centre piston and to the rear calliper via the PCV pressure control valve.
    so when you need to stand on that rear brake trying to turn it into a boat anchor so as to not kill yourself in the rough terrain the front left centre piston is also applied which consumes the front suspension travel which sharpens up the steering head angle whilst the tyre is trying to skid, on all three occasions the front end folded to the left and over the bike went.

    So the front calliper needs to be dismantled and the porting on the centre piston needs to be drilled out to marry into the other two pistons to get fluid. remove the brake line from the calliper to the abs unit and plug the line port in the abs block also remove the damper up there as well and plug the calliper with a blanking bolt and washer reassemble and bleed brakes, the front now has all six pistons working off the front brake lever only via the abs unit.

    After doing the above I road it for over 800kms in the one day with 220kms being dirt, what was very notable is how little work the rear calliper does in the standard set up, you can stand on the brake leaver and it would pull the bike up say to 50 percent of the braking force you would expect or have had on a normal bike. I could never get the abs to kick in on the stock set up only after the removal of the combined plumbing would the ABS work on the rear.

    The rear brake has a PCV or pressure control valve that reduces line pressure from the master cylinder to the rear calliper this also needs to be removed then full master cylinder pressure is going to the calliper.
    The bike is like a normal bike with good brakes now the thing is now closer to a sports bike, some have said the 1200x brakes are a little light on the above mod brings them to life.

    I can post further info and photos if any one is interested.

    Thanks Nerriga16     
       
     

  • Offline wvm005

    • Crosstourer Pro  ‐    120
    • ***
      #1

    Offline wvm005

    • Crosstourer Pro
    • ***
    • Posts: 120
    • City / Town: Livingston
    Re: Combinded Brake removal
    Reply #1 on: Jan 12, 2017, 11.53 pm
    Jan 12, 2017, 11.53 pm
    Sounds a great mod, I hate the combined nanny system. Especially this stupid one, applying front  brake for you on press of a rear one. I would love to know who decided it was a good idea.  :087:
    Fancy trying this as I have had a rear brake dragging issue since day one. My friend with identical bike doesn't have it. Bled everything a million times, new pads etc. About to try another rear master, if no joy I will consider this.

    Cheers
    V
    2012 CT SE (White)
    2012 CBR1000RR
    2012 KTM 300 EXC

  • Offline veeefour

    • Crosstourer Pro  ‐    290
    • ***
      #2

    Offline veeefour

    • Crosstourer Pro
    • ***
    • Posts: 290
    • Bike: VFR1200F
    Re: Combinded Brake removal
    Reply #2 on: Jan 13, 2017, 07.44 am
    Jan 13, 2017, 07.44 am
    *Originally Posted by Nerriga16 [+]
    Hi All,

    The Honda 1200x has combined brakes as everyone knows and I tried to live with it but in the end could not after three get offs in the dirt trying to slow the big girl down at speed in deep sand and mud. I ride it often on dirt so the following needed to be undertaken and the results for me are great.

    So I thought I would quickly post the information as improvement in the bike for me is fantastic, the front brakes are better more pulling up power and the rear you can now give the abs a workout .

    So if you don't know how the system works it is as follows,
    apply the rear brake and fluid is sent via the abs unit into a damper and then into the left front calliper centre piston and to the rear calliper via the PCV pressure control valve.
    so when you need to stand on that rear brake trying to turn it into a boat anchor so as to not kill yourself in the rough terrain the front left centre piston is also applied which consumes the front suspension travel which sharpens up the steering head angle whilst the tyre is trying to skid, on all three occasions the front end folded to the left and over the bike went.

    So the front calliper needs to be dismantled and the porting on the centre piston needs to be drilled out to marry into the other two pistons to get fluid. remove the brake line from the calliper to the abs unit and plug the line port in the abs block also remove the damper up there as well and plug the calliper with a blanking bolt and washer reassemble and bleed brakes, the front now has all six pistons working off the front brake lever only via the abs unit.

    After doing the above I road it for over 800kms in the one day with 220kms being dirt, what was very notable is how little work the rear calliper does in the standard set up, you can stand on the brake leaver and it would pull the bike up say to 50 percent of the braking force you would expect or have had on a normal bike. I could never get the abs to kick in on the stock set up only after the removal of the combined plumbing would the ABS work on the rear.

    The rear brake has a PCV or pressure control valve that reduces line pressure from the master cylinder to the rear calliper this also needs to be removed then full master cylinder pressure is going to the calliper.
    The bike is like a normal bike with good brakes now the thing is now closer to a sports bike, some have said the 1200x brakes are a little light on the above mod brings them to life.

    I can post further info and photos if any one is interested.

    Thanks Nerriga16     
     
    Yes but now you don't have a fully working ABS.

  • Offline Nerriga16

    • Crosstourer Member  ‐    23
    • **
    • Topic Author
    • #3

    Offline Nerriga16

    • Crosstourer Member
    • **
    • Topic Author
    • Posts: 23
    Re: Combinded Brake removal
    Reply #3 on: Jan 13, 2017, 09.04 am
    Jan 13, 2017, 09.04 am
    The ABS is not effected at all, the bike is much better to ride the only abs port blanked is the front left centre piston feed activated by the rear brake which is now removed.

    Combined rear brake function is activated by rear brake and is a hydraulic pressure function, ABS is electronic controlling fluid flow through connected brake lines.

       

  • Offline veeefour

    • Crosstourer Pro  ‐    290
    • ***
      #4

    Offline veeefour

    • Crosstourer Pro
    • ***
    • Posts: 290
    • Bike: VFR1200F
    Re: Combinded Brake removal
    Reply #4 on: Jan 13, 2017, 09.29 am
    Jan 13, 2017, 09.29 am
    There are two valves in this system:
    -front delay valve(close to the ABS modulator)
    -rear proportioning valve

    The ABS will not work properly if you remove any of those.

  • Offline Maverick

    • Crosstourer Master  ‐    592
    • ****
      #5

    Offline Maverick

    • Crosstourer Master
    • ****
    • Posts: 592
    • City / Town: East Sussex
    Re: Combinded Brake removal
    Reply #5 on: Jan 13, 2017, 06.37 pm
    Jan 13, 2017, 06.37 pm
     :034: I did not realise it had linked brakes.......they all do?

  • Offline mondeoman

    • Crosstourer Pro  ‐    203
    • ***
      #6

    Offline mondeoman

    • Crosstourer Pro
    • ***
    • Posts: 203
    • Bike: vfr1200X
    Re: Combinded Brake removal
    Reply #6 on: Jan 13, 2017, 09.46 pm
    Jan 13, 2017, 09.46 pm
    *Originally Posted by Maverick [+]
    :034: I did not realise it had linked brakes.......they all do?

    Yes, they all do, I think it's great  :028:, amongst a raft of car/bike E.U proposals currently under consideration is that all new 2 wheelers must have interlinked brakes so possibly in the future this mod' would be illegal, even at the moment insurance companies would NEVER allow this and would cancel your insurance as interfering with the manufacturers braking system is a definite no no, as an ex motor insurance chappie I can remember a couple of cases involving cars with undeclared braking mods that were involved in crashes and guess what, the insurance was declared null and void with the car owners then liable to massive civil compo' claims, so don't even think about it. Or at the very least check with your insurance company BEFORE doing anything.
    Last Edit: Jan 13, 2017, 09.48 pm by mondeoman

  • Offline Fredz   au

    • Crosstourer Pro  ‐    118
    • ***
      #7

    Offline Fredz

    • Crosstourer Pro
    • ***
    • Posts: 118
    • Country: au
    Re: Combinded Brake removal
    Reply #7 on: Jan 14, 2017, 01.51 am
    Jan 14, 2017, 01.51 am
    I'd say you're dead right m/man but I like what Nerriga has done and agree with his evaluation of how it works now.  ABS will still work on both wheel.  I have had similar issue on my 1400GTR with linked brakes ie, nose dive and bike wanting to stand up straight due to front brake application via rear pedal when coming fast into a bend.  It's been a major bone on contention for many with the linked system on the GTR tho the latest model has changed to a far less intrusive linked system and riders are much happier with it by the reports I've read.

    I de-linked the series 2 GTR brakes but still have ABS fully functional on both wheels and it's a safer ride now like the series 1 1400GTR that came without linked brakes.

    The link below shows the hydraulic circuit on the VFR1200X.

      https://www.crosstourer.com/index.php/topic,5550.0.html

    Veefour, I would probably attempt the mod a little differently than described above but if Nerriga says ABS is fully functional on both wheels, that's all it needs to be.  It sounds to me like he knows how the system works and how to change it to suit his needs.  But do this mod at your own risk.

     



    arab-exile