just to update and thank you guys for the advice .. did test ride on quite a few bikes .. chickened out on the Crosstourer and ended up with the baby bro . Crossrunner VFR800 X 2015 version .. it did all i needed and was quality ! CT was there too xnd not much heavier ? but with low seat was foot firm and back upable ( is there such a word ?) well pleased do honda didnt miss out .. as for tracer ? yep tried that .. not impressed .. light and reactive but seat was a pain and gen fealt tacky n cheap .. my opinion counts for little but there you go ..